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	<title>Comments for Vintage Disciples</title>
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	<link>http://mark-driscoll-vintage-jesus.arieljvan.com</link>
	<description>Blow-by-blow discussion of Mark Driscoll's Vintage Jesus</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 06:03:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on ??? by Lanz Franco</title>
		<link>http://mark-driscoll-vintage-jesus.arieljvan.com/2008/05/15/14/#comment-35</link>
		<dc:creator>Lanz Franco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 16:17:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mark-driscoll-vintage-jesus.arieljvan.com/?p=14#comment-35</guid>
		<description>Come on... you've been out of school how long, AJ? Surely you've written commentary for Chapter 3 by now? ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Come on&#8230; you&#8217;ve been out of school how long, AJ? Surely you&#8217;ve written commentary for Chapter 3 by now? <img src='http://mark-driscoll-vintage-jesus.arieljvan.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>Comment on ??? by Bernard</title>
		<link>http://mark-driscoll-vintage-jesus.arieljvan.com/2008/05/15/14/#comment-34</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 14:16:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mark-driscoll-vintage-jesus.arieljvan.com/?p=14#comment-34</guid>
		<description>Roll on, AJ.  I've backed up to Chap 3 and I might even be able to intelligently discourse.  Might.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roll on, AJ.  I&#8217;ve backed up to Chap 3 and I might even be able to intelligently discourse.  Might.</p>
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		<title>Comment on ??? by Andy</title>
		<link>http://mark-driscoll-vintage-jesus.arieljvan.com/2008/05/15/14/#comment-33</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 14:13:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mark-driscoll-vintage-jesus.arieljvan.com/?p=14#comment-33</guid>
		<description>Let's get rolling again.  I should have some time to jump in now as well...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s get rolling again.  I should have some time to jump in now as well&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on ??? by Lanz Franco</title>
		<link>http://mark-driscoll-vintage-jesus.arieljvan.com/2008/05/15/14/#comment-32</link>
		<dc:creator>Lanz Franco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 21:32:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mark-driscoll-vintage-jesus.arieljvan.com/?p=14#comment-32</guid>
		<description>I'm up for it. And Bernard took the words out of my mouth and AJ took the answer. We are all psychically in tune.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m up for it. And Bernard took the words out of my mouth and AJ took the answer. We are all psychically in tune.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on ??? by AJ</title>
		<link>http://mark-driscoll-vintage-jesus.arieljvan.com/2008/05/15/14/#comment-31</link>
		<dc:creator>AJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 16:57:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mark-driscoll-vintage-jesus.arieljvan.com/?p=14#comment-31</guid>
		<description>I got hit over the head by finals and church planting issues and some business stuff, but I'd be willing to kick-start a Ch. 3 discussion if anyone's up for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I got hit over the head by finals and church planting issues and some business stuff, but I&#8217;d be willing to kick-start a Ch. 3 discussion if anyone&#8217;s up for it.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Driscoll quotes Madeleine L&#8217;Engle in a  &#8230; by Andy</title>
		<link>http://mark-driscoll-vintage-jesus.arieljvan.com/2008/04/22/driscoll-quotes-madeleine-lengle-in-a/#comment-27</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 20:24:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mark-driscoll-vintage-jesus.arieljvan.com/2008/04/22/driscoll-quotes-madeleine-lengle-in-a/#comment-27</guid>
		<description>Bernard, I don't take issue with what you say; I think this is a sign of where I think the book is weak - who is the intended audience?  Is this to be a book that speaks to folks like us, or is it aimed at those who are not Christians?

If this is a book aimed at non-Christian twenty-somethings in Seattle, then I think the "earthy" descriptions of Jesus can work (although I would concur they probably play better spoken than read).  This gives them a Jesus they can relate to.  

But you and I don't necessarily need that - rather, we do need to be reminded of his humanity, but I would hope that we have grown sufficiently in our faith that we don't need those kinds of descriptions of Jesus.  

Crassness aside, I still like the chapter, because I think his key takeaway is solid.  But I still think the larger problem with the book goes back to the beginning, wherein Driscoll needs to setup some basic apologetics before his argument in subsequent chapters can withstand the harder questions non-believers may ask.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bernard, I don&#8217;t take issue with what you say; I think this is a sign of where I think the book is weak - who is the intended audience?  Is this to be a book that speaks to folks like us, or is it aimed at those who are not Christians?</p>
<p>If this is a book aimed at non-Christian twenty-somethings in Seattle, then I think the &#8220;earthy&#8221; descriptions of Jesus can work (although I would concur they probably play better spoken than read).  This gives them a Jesus they can relate to.  </p>
<p>But you and I don&#8217;t necessarily need that - rather, we do need to be reminded of his humanity, but I would hope that we have grown sufficiently in our faith that we don&#8217;t need those kinds of descriptions of Jesus.  </p>
<p>Crassness aside, I still like the chapter, because I think his key takeaway is solid.  But I still think the larger problem with the book goes back to the beginning, wherein Driscoll needs to setup some basic apologetics before his argument in subsequent chapters can withstand the harder questions non-believers may ask.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Driscoll quotes Madeleine L&#8217;Engle in a  &#8230; by Lanz Franco</title>
		<link>http://mark-driscoll-vintage-jesus.arieljvan.com/2008/04/22/driscoll-quotes-madeleine-lengle-in-a/#comment-26</link>
		<dc:creator>Lanz Franco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 16:29:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mark-driscoll-vintage-jesus.arieljvan.com/2008/04/22/driscoll-quotes-madeleine-lengle-in-a/#comment-26</guid>
		<description>Yeah, but the stuff he left in the pot didn't stink. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, but the stuff he left in the pot didn&#8217;t stink. <img src='http://mark-driscoll-vintage-jesus.arieljvan.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>Comment on Driscoll quotes Madeleine L&#8217;Engle in a  &#8230; by Bernard</title>
		<link>http://mark-driscoll-vintage-jesus.arieljvan.com/2008/04/22/driscoll-quotes-madeleine-lengle-in-a/#comment-25</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 13:57:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mark-driscoll-vintage-jesus.arieljvan.com/2008/04/22/driscoll-quotes-madeleine-lengle-in-a/#comment-25</guid>
		<description>Okay, I'll just be raw here with two points.

One, I DON'T fully understand the need for or the purpose of Christ's complete humanity.  I think there are so MANY reasons and different explanations, and they may all have some truth to them.  

Two, I think Driscoll takes pains to almost "gutterize" Jesus Christ, and the highly conservative part of me resents that.  To accuse Jesus of "being funny" with a particular line - camel through the eye of a needle, for example - takes away some of the theological "punch" of the statement that is delivered.  It's the old "Aw, shucks, I was just joking about that" mentality being applied to the Son of God, and I hesitate to start using that thought pattern when I read the Word of God.  Sure, I believe Jesus was genuinely friendly, happy, and probably smiled a lot, but those are MY impressions, not a Scriptural teaching.  Did Jesus fart?  Did He burp?  Did His feet stink?  Did He pee?  Sure.  I believe He was that human.  I also believe that it's worth discussing, but it's very easy to cross the line where part of His deity is removed by excessive emphasis on the "earthy" part of Jesus Christ.  I think that Driscoll is AWARE of this, but I think - in transposing the sarcasm that works so well in his sermons but sometimes seems crass in writing - he has made Jesus almost into a homeless bum with a short haircut.  I DO think we often miss the truth of Jesus' human side, but I DON'T think that making Jesus sweat, stink, and sit on the pot necessarily makes us understand why He became human.  

But I do think it's a good discussion to have.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, I&#8217;ll just be raw here with two points.</p>
<p>One, I DON&#8217;T fully understand the need for or the purpose of Christ&#8217;s complete humanity.  I think there are so MANY reasons and different explanations, and they may all have some truth to them.  </p>
<p>Two, I think Driscoll takes pains to almost &#8220;gutterize&#8221; Jesus Christ, and the highly conservative part of me resents that.  To accuse Jesus of &#8220;being funny&#8221; with a particular line - camel through the eye of a needle, for example - takes away some of the theological &#8220;punch&#8221; of the statement that is delivered.  It&#8217;s the old &#8220;Aw, shucks, I was just joking about that&#8221; mentality being applied to the Son of God, and I hesitate to start using that thought pattern when I read the Word of God.  Sure, I believe Jesus was genuinely friendly, happy, and probably smiled a lot, but those are MY impressions, not a Scriptural teaching.  Did Jesus fart?  Did He burp?  Did His feet stink?  Did He pee?  Sure.  I believe He was that human.  I also believe that it&#8217;s worth discussing, but it&#8217;s very easy to cross the line where part of His deity is removed by excessive emphasis on the &#8220;earthy&#8221; part of Jesus Christ.  I think that Driscoll is AWARE of this, but I think - in transposing the sarcasm that works so well in his sermons but sometimes seems crass in writing - he has made Jesus almost into a homeless bum with a short haircut.  I DO think we often miss the truth of Jesus&#8217; human side, but I DON&#8217;T think that making Jesus sweat, stink, and sit on the pot necessarily makes us understand why He became human.  </p>
<p>But I do think it&#8217;s a good discussion to have.  <img src='http://mark-driscoll-vintage-jesus.arieljvan.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>Comment on Driscoll quotes Madeleine L&#8217;Engle in a  &#8230; by AJ</title>
		<link>http://mark-driscoll-vintage-jesus.arieljvan.com/2008/04/22/driscoll-quotes-madeleine-lengle-in-a/#comment-24</link>
		<dc:creator>AJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:55:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mark-driscoll-vintage-jesus.arieljvan.com/2008/04/22/driscoll-quotes-madeleine-lengle-in-a/#comment-24</guid>
		<description>Good summary, Andy. One thing I like about the book is the way Driscoll is deliberate about including "take-aways" like the one you mention here. Case in point:

"Why does it matter that Jesus was both God and man?"

As God, he saves us...
As man, he understands us (became us)...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good summary, Andy. One thing I like about the book is the way Driscoll is deliberate about including &#8220;take-aways&#8221; like the one you mention here. Case in point:</p>
<p>&#8220;Why does it matter that Jesus was both God and man?&#8221;</p>
<p>As God, he saves us&#8230;<br />
As man, he understands us (became us)&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Driscoll quotes Madeleine L&#8217;Engle in a  &#8230; by Lanz Franco</title>
		<link>http://mark-driscoll-vintage-jesus.arieljvan.com/2008/04/22/driscoll-quotes-madeleine-lengle-in-a/#comment-23</link>
		<dc:creator>Lanz Franco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:19:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mark-driscoll-vintage-jesus.arieljvan.com/2008/04/22/driscoll-quotes-madeleine-lengle-in-a/#comment-23</guid>
		<description>It doesn't matter what you have planned, Andy... Its what God has planned. 

I read this chapter relatively quickly and I haven't gotten any further. It didn't impact me like a meteor, but more like a small rock in a still pool. I keep coming back to this chapter again and again. I'm not sure I agree with everything Driscoll writes, but his painting of Jesus's dual nature is very compelling. I guess Jesus is the one who brings balance to the force. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It doesn&#8217;t matter what you have planned, Andy&#8230; Its what God has planned. </p>
<p>I read this chapter relatively quickly and I haven&#8217;t gotten any further. It didn&#8217;t impact me like a meteor, but more like a small rock in a still pool. I keep coming back to this chapter again and again. I&#8217;m not sure I agree with everything Driscoll writes, but his painting of Jesus&#8217;s dual nature is very compelling. I guess Jesus is the one who brings balance to the force. <img src='http://mark-driscoll-vintage-jesus.arieljvan.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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